Tuesday, March 23, 2010

Slippery Slope

When Jerry/Hugh and I had dinner the other night, we sat across from each other in a booth. By the time we had been talking for an hour after our meal our was finished, he started to hold my hand across the table.

It's so strange to be dating again, that I actually had to consider whether it was weird or sweet to be holding hands. I mean - I'm almost 40 for crying out loud! It seems so silly, so backwards.
I decided on sweet. Hey, that's the way it's supposed to go.

After we had been talking for FOUR hours on our date, he invited me to sit on his side of the booth when I returned from the ladies room. It wasn't long after that, he kissed me. (yes, it was lovely - despite being in a public place!)

See, I'm a girl who waits to kiss until the third date.

You know why? Because in our society - things have become so distorted that many men expect sex on the third date! I reserve kissing for the third date to let a man know that I'm not that kind of girl!

This morning, on the AM Radio Show the hosts were talking about a survey. It had asked either 1500 or 15,000 women (I'm bad with numbers so I can't remember - and I can't find the source right now) on which date in a new relationship is it okay to have sex with your date.
The majority answer was the THIRD DATE! 10% responded that it was okay on the first date if you really connected!

This is ridiculous to me! What on earth does a couple know about one another by the third date to risk having a child together?!!! Yuck. That's part of the problem that our society's contraception mentality has created. (Conversion Diary has a great explanation of the Contraceptive Mentality - scroll down to that section or read this whole post... it's amazing.)

Back to my date.
He walked me not only to the door of my building, but to my own personal door on the third floor. (it was already 2:30am! ) We talked on my sofa for a bit, and kissed a bit more. This wasn't exactly the third date so I started wonder if this was all too soon.

But we had just talked for six hours! It's not as if we hadn't gotten to know one another.
So I looked up at him and said, "Wait. Maybe we should talk some more!"
As expected, he burst out laughing.
I took the opportunity to ask, "Is this our second date? Or our first? Was our breakfast meeting a date?"
"Of course it was a date. Plus, we've spent more than 15 hours on the phone together - this is like our 4th or 5th date."

"Well then, I guess it's okay to kiss."

But I am regretting it a little bit. I think I really like him, and now that we've kissed we've raised the bar a bit. If I'm trying to save sex for marriage - (whether with Jerry/Hugh or someone else) there's not a whole lot left between kissing and sex to reserve for the slow reveal.
Plus, it doesn't take much kissing before the desire to tear off clothing kicks in.
Sigh. Been there before!
Such a slippery slope.

For the record, Italian Guy asked me if I kiss on the second date. I said no. A) because I'm a third date girl - B) I'm already kissing Jerry/Hugh and C) Italian Guy is very recently divorced with three small children and no annulment yet. Oh... and D) as a by-product of being divorced, he hasn't really dated in 19 years so I figure I should help him set reasonable expectations.


~ifer said...

That is a pretty tricky slope to be on, for sure. The important thing is, it sounds like you are keeping yourself aware of what is going on, and actively working on not slipping down that slope.

erinannie said...

As usual, girlfriend, you have nailed it perfectly. I wish I had your strength and convictions! I greatly admire your ability to stand up and speak your mind so freely as well. It helps all of us to know we're not alone in our values and morals.
As you know, a certain man from my past has reappeared. I used to have very strong feelings for him. We're not starting at zero and working our way up. I'm starting at a 7 and working up. I've mentally made the decision to hold off on any physical relationship with him for as long as possible. It is smarter to build the friendship first. We know we can light each others' fires just fine when we get there!
Thank you for your courage!

Heidi said...

My. It's been so long since someone just held hands with me and meant it (as opposed to my touchy friends who will hold hands with anything, really) that I don't think I'd know how to react!

Thank you for also being a "kiss on the third date" girl! It makes the rest of us feel less alone in this weird permissive world.

TRS said...


That's a tough one because there is already something established. You are right, you must hold back - but you both know that there is a real attraction - so you must build the 'relationship' side of things now.

My friend M, scolded me when she learned we kissed already. My only defense was... "We're 40! It's not like we're 18!" Weak, I know.

She managed to draw hand-holding out to 3-4 months, now they are kissing but draw the line before french kissing. I'm proud of her.

For myself - at my age, I'm afraid of scaring a guy off with my preservationist attitude. And one would say if I scare him off - good riddance... but let's remember ... I had a boyfriend totally committed to abstinence and we all know how that turned out... after 2 years - ya gotta s*** or get off the pot. If there is no intimacy, you just become friends. If you're over 35 - and abstinent... you must have a short courtship if you want to end up with a marriage - otherwise all you have are two sexually frustrated adults.

And Erin... you've seen what the single/ available 50 year old men look like. I have to find my guy now - or I'll be fishing in a really ugly pond!!!

Genevra said...

TRS- While I do not personally share your views on waiting until marriage, I absolutely respect and understand where you are coming from. I won't kiss until the third date either, even when I did believe in waiting for sex until marriage. No matter what your personal beliefs are, I think to many people confuse sexual/physical intimacy with emotional intimacy. One does not necessarily imply the other.

Studies have shown that women release a bonding hormone in those situations very similar to the bonding hormone a woman's body release's when she gives birth to help her bond to her baby. Those hormones are so powerful in a woman it can take up to TWO years of no contact with the man for the bond to break.

So religious beliefs or not, those bonding hormones are one of the reasons I have the no kissing until the 3rd date rule. As you said if the man is a good kisser and there is great chemistry then that desire to tear off the clothing kicks in. So I always think of if I'm willing to risk getting myself bonded for the next to years to a man that may or may not be as great as he portrays himself in the courtship stage. The three dates helps me remain more objective, or at least I hope it does, to gather more information about the man.

Good luck to you and I am so happy that things are going so well between the two of you. You truly deserve it and so much more.

TRS said...


I understand that most of society doesn't agree with my position on abstinence until marriage. And I even feel pretty funny mentioning it in the same sentence that indicates I'll be 40 soon!
Hello - I could be branded!!

But I do feel strongly that people shouldn't enter into sexual relationships with the casual attitude that so many do... willy nilly - I'll sleep with him cuz he's hot - and whoops I'm pregnant - how did that happen?

I simply believe that the gift of sexuality - and the gift of the ability to procreate is a bit too awesome to be taken so lightly.

It is amazing that God gave us humans the ability to create life - so my standard rule is never to have sex with someone I don't want to be connected to for the next 18 years because we have a child together.
And if that doesn't work... I check and see if he is my husband, and if he's not - no nookie.

Not to say I haven't made a few bad judgments in my life... or gotten carried away... because I have. (and it was fun)
But there is no sense making the same mistakes over and over once you know better.

Bottom line - we don't have to agree on everything to be friends! And I love my bloggy friends!!

Genevra said...

Hehe TRS, I love you as a bloggy friend! I really do agree with you about way too many people being too willing to make life altering choices without thinking it through very well first. Sexuality is a God give gift and it is such a shame that it is either treated so lightly or exploited so much. Sigh.

It frustrates me when I go on a date and come across a man who expects it on a 3rd date at the latest. And men get mad at women for having a "timeline" about marriage when dating a man! Some men expect it, because some women are all too willing to give it to them. Usually those men are the ones I dump fast, because they usually have one thing on the agenda, and getting to know me as a person usually isn't one of the top three. :)

TRS said...


Melissa said...

You don't know me but I wanted to say hi. I catch your blog every so often and enjoy it a lot! The same is true for Genevra's blog and I left her a comment for the first time just now, so thought I'd leave you one too.

I'm 38 and single, never been married, no kids. It sure is nice to connect with others in the cyber-world who are in the same situation. At times it feels like we are really in the minority, doesn't it?! Anyway I'm glad to connect with you and Genevra. I'm really enjoying hearing about your latest couple of guys, by the way!

Nice to e-meet you!

Kelly said...

TRS, I've been meaning to contact you for awhile since your comment on my blog about the yarn you have laying around. My husband would insist I have PLENTY of yarn, but the more the merrier, I say.

Please let me at least pay for shipping it though! Shoot me an email at frazzled.kelly@gmail.com

Anonymous said...

DON'T TAKE IT OFF!!! hahaha. I will kiss on the first date... but I have a 3 month rule. 3 months for me to have sex, because I think it takes at least that long to get to know someone, and that way you can weed out the guys who are just in it for the nookie!

TRS said...

Oh T!nk! I enjoy you so freakin' much!
When I was your age - the three month rule was standard. Good to know it's still out there ... and maybe the third date thing is for folks my age.

Dare I point out that Jerry/Hugh just left? Yikes! We just get to talking and really enjoying one another's company - and suddenly it's 2:00am - every time!!

I don't want to jinx this, bloggy friends... but this could seriously be something. He's so much easier to relate to than Mr. Burns. It's like I can't even believe I tried for so long!!

Stacey said...

Hey girl,

Just wanted to tell you how much I admire and appreciate your point of view and firm convictions about this!

My husband and I, when dating, took things very slowly by most standards. We dated very casually for a few months, and even after getting more serious, he waited a few more months before our first kiss. Yes, this felt like a long time to me, too, but that includes an entire summer spent in different states...

Anyway, we both knew that we were waiting until marriage before having sex, and it's a decision we've never, ever regretted. Nearly 12 years later we couldn't be happier that we stuck to our convictions.

Stand firm! One day it will be SO WORTH IT!

P.S. Not wanting to "jinx" it either, but so glad things are going well so far!